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John Mulaney - "Baby J" with Ellen Ness
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Nick and Bryan welcome their first "guest by marriage". Ellen Ness (Brian Ness' better half) is here to discuss John Mulaney with them.
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This is last time. The week through updates on Tommy Legends and Rising Stars. Every episode features a different guest naming to the armchair fit to the Brian. So sit back and strap in as we butcher callback. Emphasis on butcher. Sit back and strap in as we butcher callbacks to our comedy heroes. Who's our guest today, Brian?
SPEAKER_02Thanks, Nick. Good job. Yeah. Our guest today is Ellen Nest. And uh for those of you who are fans of the podcast, you will know that her husband actually was a previous guest on the podcast. And so uh we were lucky enough to get the uh the first, what is it? I guess what we were calling, guest-in-law or guest uh, you know, um secondary marital guest. I don't know. But yeah, but welcome, Ellen. Uh we're glad that you're here. Thank you so much for agreeing to come on to this crazy thing and talk about a comedian.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's one of my favorite things to do.
SPEAKER_02So tell us a little bit about um so we select or who you selected and why. Uh I know you gave you usually give uh you give me three choices, but we sort of came to this conclusion together. So tell me about your fan um, you know, level of fandom for this person and also just stand-up comed comedy comedians, stand-up comedians and stand-up comedy in general.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so I picked John Mullaney's latest special, Baby J. Um, I picked him in part because he is just my favorite comedian. Um, I've yet to have anybody top him. I have several others that are very much in the running, uh, but they usually fall off after about a third special or so. They start to get a little stale. Uh, and he has been able to captivate me with every single special he's come out with. Uh and this one in particular was very interesting. Um, not sure if you're are y'all familiar with the backstory and kind of like, I mean, obviously you watch this and you kind of know, but like this was a big one because it was right after hit him coming out of rehab um and back to his world of work and life. Um and it's just a very, I think it's I'm just excited to kind of like pick through it from a more analytical lens and see kind of where it lands. Um comedy is one of those, it's one of those sneaky things that I didn't realize I had grown up with, but the more I thought about it, I mean, I remember uh back when I was very young going on family road trips and my dad would pop in Lewis Grizzard tapes. Um Lewis Grizzard was like an old Georgia comedian, made a lot of, you know, had a lot of UGA material, which we were big Bulldogs fans and family. So uh just grew up on a lot of that and the the blue uh blue-collar comedy tour. Um and then I was very fortunate that when I got married, my husband was also a big comedy fan, hence why we've both now been on the podcast. Um and uh so this one too, actually, John Mullaney, Baby J, we actually got to see live.
SPEAKER_04Oh, that's awesome.
SPEAKER_00Yes, it was my first time at the Ryman. He came to the Ryman. I had been holding out going to the Ryman until it was like an actual like concert I wanted to see because it's such an epic place, like a historic place. Um John Mullaney came through and I was like, you know what, screw it. We're just gonna we're gonna go see a comedian there first. Word to the wise, I don't recommend it.
SPEAKER_03Oh. The Ryman specifically?
SPEAKER_00The Ryman, yeah. Not for a comedy show. Uh, unless you're I would say unless you're in like rows one and two on the floor or row one of the balcony.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah. I I know what you mean. I've seen I saw Jim Gaffkin there um before he did that. Was like before he did Bridgestone. And um, same thing. It was we I usually whenever I go to the Ryman, I usually spring for really good seats for that exact reason. Like I'm usually like, I'm gonna pay a little extra and be in like rows one through five, like dead center, um, just because there are so many seats in there that are obstructed and just buried way back. I mean, the place wasn't, I mean, it really it was used to be a church, so you know, it wasn't really meant to be a uh a live entertainment.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, you don't need to see the preacher to get saved, right?
SPEAKER_00Well, this I was saying, just the sound was not set up, I don't think, for like a comedy show. Like it's it, I'm that's why I really would love to see a concert there and see just kind of how the sound works there.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00And all that being said, it was still an amazing experience. Loved it and was so excited then to get to watch the the special when it came out on Netflix.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah. And so I've seen I I think I saw I've seen a couple of concerts there as well. And the concerts I think are better than comedy. So um just I think it's like you said, you it's less you like to see who's playing the music, but also it's about the music, yeah, you know, and the one man or one person show as a stand-up comedian. You really want to see that, you know, see see the delivery, see the facial expressions, see all the stuff that we go through on our sheet and stuff like that. So anyway. So yeah, um, so John Mullaney, he's been around for quite some time, and uh he you know has obviously was a what Nick he's been around for quite some time.
SPEAKER_03I was like, he's not that old.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I know. I think, but I think for a while he was behind the scenes though, because like before that he was writing for SNL, and um, and so we knew of him, and then he started to get like bit parts on SNL, like he was a writer, and they started to pull him in front of the camera a little bit for some some of the things, and um, you know, uh, but then he started, you know, has obviously stand-up specials, multiple stand-up specials, um, on Netflix right now and other places. So yeah. Um, and his style's pretty distinct. So you guys want to get into it? Um let's start with uh comedic style. Um, Ellen, you want to start start us off with the the styles that you saw in there?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I think uh I put storytelling kind of as the first and foremost. Yeah. Uh and it's it's funny because it's the he tells stories through jokes, which I know that sounds like, well, that's what all comedians do, but it's truly like, especially in this one, the way he tells, like he's telling the story, but he's telling a joke with almost every line.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um, which is very impressive. But you're also like he does a great setup and like you really get the the gist of of the kind of scenery that he setting.
SPEAKER_02Nick, what oh, and oh, did you have any other ones in there?
SPEAKER_00No, that was the only one I I kind of picked for him.
SPEAKER_02What about you, Nick?
SPEAKER_03Um I'm the same. I think he's like almost entirely a storyteller. There was supposedly a bit of improv at the start, a bit of crowd work with Henry, the 11-year-old.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_03But like I never actually heard Henry. Like, I almost feel like it was just uh an imagined one-way, an imagined conversation that he was doing to set up these jokes, you know.
SPEAKER_00So he actually did the same thing at the live show. Oh, he did. I don't know, I don't remember the kids' name or how old they were. I feel like there was actually a kid there though. Um, so I'm wondering if he has somebody like scout them out.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, just like find find some kid that looks younger.
SPEAKER_00Find kid in the audience, yeah. Yeah. Um, because he actually did the same bit at the live show.
SPEAKER_03Wow. That makes me feel really good about my powers of observation. Thank you, Ellen. You're welcome back anytime. I don't know. There there may have been some I guess self-observation. Like there's observational, like the way he paints a picture, he saw the things, you know.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Uh I feel like I'm just grasping because I've never really had so a comedian be just one box that we've reviewed.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it was I I actually sort of struggled to find other ones. I I mean I I I put an X in the storytelling box and then I also underlined it like for emphasis for myself. But I I mean, really honestly, that most of that set is if you think about it, is almost one long story. Like it's chronologically set up where he's going through like this, and towards the end, he starts to break up into other things, like sort of tangents of that story. But I mean, really, the whole story is him going to rehab and him getting clean, and then all the things like that, um, and his intervention and you know, stuff like that. I did see like there were just a few observational things, I think, because like when he's like, you know, when a person does da da da, like almost like Seinfeldian a little bit. Um, so a couple of those things, and then I actually put character comedy a little bit, and the reason why is he did a few like impressions. Um, like I have I counted three at least. So he did Pete Davidson, Al Pacino, Fred Armison. Um, all of those. And they're not, I mean, he's not an impressionist by any means, but they're it's like those. I I mean the thing is it's like it's close enough for you to be like, oh yeah, that's Fred Armison. Like, yeah, that's totally Fred Armison, or that's Pete Davidson, you know, like um his Al Pacino is horrible, you know. Um, but it's like but it's enough for your like, oh yeah, okay, because he just sort of like does a gravelly voice, like, uh, all right, I'm Al Pacino, you know, like that kind of thing. Um so I thought um I I would I would give him a courtesy uh check on that box as well. But um those are the only ones that I really really had in there.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I actually agree with the character one because I started to to pick it too, because he has he has so many, like even so those are just like the known ones, but then he also has you could almost see some of the SNL in him when he like he would drop into a story of like being like Dr. Michael or whatever. Um and he drops into this character um that he just kind of acts out there on stage. Yeah. So I actually almost put the the character as well, but I wasn't sure. I wasn't sure how uh how honest we were to how strict we were on the death.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah. I even saw the other one that I liked was when he was when he was talking about them waiting outside liquor stores and waiting for people to buy them beer, and he's like, Yeah, I he's like, I told my friends we should only do dating couples because then the guy wouldn't impress the girl and like that, and he's like, you know, the girl's like he drops into like that girl kind of tone, you know, sorry, Ellen, but like a girl type of tone where he's like, you know, he's like, you know, I just I didn't know about you at the first end of the date, but you know, after I saw you buy those two 24 packs of Natty Light and that, you know, Boone's farm for that one's particular kid, I just thought, yeah, you're the keeper, you know, you're probably a keeper, you know stuff. And it was like full on a character, you know what I mean? Like it could have been written into an SNL skit, like you know, that kind of thing. So anyway. Um, all right, so how about subject matter? Um, Nick, you want to start us there?
SPEAKER_03Sure. But first off, I I didn't realize that that would be your most retellable joke.
SPEAKER_02No, I've got different, I've got different for the retellables. Yeah, we'll get there. Don't worry.
SPEAKER_03Um, I checked personal life, yeah. Even his introduction talking about how he was the the third of four kids, but then of course his journey to of recovery and rehab and then dark humor. Like, of course, he's talking about oh gosh, yeah, you're right. Illegal substances, and he opened up with what I call child psychopathy. Um, we can get into that more. But uh yeah, so I I checked those two boxes.
SPEAKER_02Okay. How about you, Alan?
SPEAKER_00Same, exactly.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I mean, I missed the dark humor, but it really is.
SPEAKER_00Well, if you miss the dark humor, he literally, I don't know.
SPEAKER_02I honestly don't know how I missed that. Because like he's he's opening up with like praying that his grandparents die. And like, you know, like that's pretty dark, you know?
SPEAKER_03And then he apologizes for opening the dark note, right? Exactly.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Um, yeah, I had I had social commentary, personal life, and I did put in pop culture as well because he um at he mentioned like I talked about SNL, Fred Armson, Seth Myers, Captain Phillips, Pete Davidson, you know, all the people I said, you know, some of the people I said he was um doing impressions of before. So um a little bit of pop culture like woven in there. I don't think he could not be pop culture because SNL is pop is like sort of pop culture. I mean, and he was so in intertwined with that like for a long time and still is really.
SPEAKER_00Um, so yeah, well he in and of himself is pop culture. Like, I mean, I'm assuming y'all are not big, you know, e news or or pop culture podcast enthusiasts. Um, but like I remember when he went to rehab and like when all this happened, it was it was used.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, oh yeah, yeah, I do remember that. Yeah. All right. You want to get in? What's that?
SPEAKER_03Not not everyone knew who he was. Yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_02Exactly. Um, all right, so let's start on our 13-point checkup here. Um so first one right off the bat is laughs per minute, not literally laughs per minute, however. Um, just uh how frequently did the comedian generate laughs? So just like a good guide of like, is this a constant laughter or anything like that? What did you score him there, Ellen?
SPEAKER_00I feel like I should preface this entire section by saying I'll be completely unbiased or completely biased here.
SPEAKER_04Okay, okay.
SPEAKER_00But I'm like, but maybe this is why he's my favorite, because he scores so high. I gave him a 10. Um and confession, I'm actually not the greatest, uh the greatest person to have in a crowd at a comedy set because I don't I don't do a lot of LOLs, there are a lot of like quiet laughter.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um so I was really just listening to the crowd on the special, and it was especially like the first half of it, it's like after almost every line, he's getting something from the crowd.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Yeah. All right. Nick.
SPEAKER_03Uh Alan got me to bump mine up to eight out of ten. That's steady laughs throughout. Um just it was good. I'm not I I'll get more eloquent later.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Okay. Um I actually uh bumped mine up too from a five to a six. So I know that's low. It's like half of Ellen's score, but um but I also think I always I always preface this. I think in the last few episodes that we've done, we've talked about storytelling comedians, and you don't expect a storytelling comedian to have yeah, like constant laughter throughout. You just it's just not the style of comedy. Doesn't mean that it's less funny or anything like that. It's just there's more buildup to the actual punch, you know. Um so yeah, so I'll stick with a six out of ten. Uh let's move on.
SPEAKER_03I have a quick question, maybe Alan you know about in the in the special John Mullaney mentions that and I forget, he's telling somebody, maybe he's telling the rehab people about him and like how he's famous and whatnot, and what stand-up comedy is. And he says, Ask ask your daughters. Or if you have a son who's not into sports, ask them. Um is there something about stand-up comedy or John Melaney that draws women more than men? Or do you know what he's talking about there?
SPEAKER_00That that was kind of you know, to be honest, what I find funny about him is I'm really surprised that one, he's as popular as he is. Because, you know, not to spoil one of our upcoming uh criteria here, but like when it comes to reliability in general, yeah, he is like a 40-year-old man who was raised in Chicago, Catholic with like a huge family. I could not have anything less in common with him.
SPEAKER_04Right.
SPEAKER_00Uh yet I enjoy every single one of his specials. Um, what what I caught in this special that I didn't know, which I'm I'm kind of curious about and want to dig into, is he kept saying like the kids. Um, like at the beginning, he talks about like the kids like Bo Burn Burnham more and like ask your daughter or your son. And so I'm like, does he have a younger crowd? And if so, why? How?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that's what that is interesting. Yeah, because I was thinking, I think that's what, and I think that's what is the reference, Nick, is he's talking about ask your daughter, meaning like younger, not necessarily female. Um, but he has, I mean, I think it's like the younger audience. But I again, I it that bewilders me too, because to me he plays older than he is. In fact, in some in fact, in some of his past things, he talks about that where he's like, like, you know, that he's like, I forget what the joke is. He was talking about that he's um he looks like like he said, Oh, just if you want to know what I look like when I'm 40, just take my kindergarten picture and just like put bags under the eyes. And like he's he's basically like, I look exactly the same. Maybe that's he looks younger than he is, actually. So, you know, um, but that was in one of those other specials. Um yeah, I mean, I don't know if that answers the question, Nick.
SPEAKER_03It it gets me closer to an answer.
SPEAKER_00I will say, like, I've never met I've never met anybody else. Like, I'm I'm surprised, like you telling me you um had not seen this before. Um he's a huge comedian to me. And so I'm like, what and I haven't but I haven't found my people, right? Like I've never found anybody else that is big of a fan of him as I am.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00And so it's like I am curious to look into that, see what his demographic is, where it comes from.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Um all right. How about content quality? Uh, how well written were the jokes and stories? Um, Ellen, why don't we start with you?
SPEAKER_00I promise they're not all actually. You know what? Actually, I'm gonna lie to you.
SPEAKER_02You're right, couching every single one.
SPEAKER_00I'm gonna lie to your face. Uh okay, no, I promise they're not all perfect scores. Not all of them. But that was also a 10.
SPEAKER_02All right. Yeah. Um, Nick.
SPEAKER_03Uh I put eight strong creative writing. At first, I'd put six decent materials, some originality, just thinking that you know, like there's good solid laughs and the originality I thought might apply to, I'm sure he had applied to some creativity to his stories. You know, maybe played somewhat loose with the the details and certain to uh author's license with different aspects. But given a bit more credit, get inspired by Alan. It takes some creativity to give just you know an account of what happens or what happened and make it funny. Find the funny and the reality and reality of what happened. So I bumped it to an eight. Eight out of ten. Strong.
SPEAKER_02I had a nine on this. Part of the reason why is one of the things I want to talk about is like how he is a writer's comedian. Like he's not a comedian that's a writer, he's like, he's a writer first, and I think that translates into his his his sets, like um, I feel like I've always thought this about him is that he's very methodical in his jokes, like they're very precise. And I feel like he if I feel like if you looked at his written stuff about his set, he's saying exactly what he wrote. Like he's not veering at all. He's like, this is the exact words in the exact order, and he like has some crazy ability to memorize that and to say it exactly in that way. Um, and then obviously, you know, he practices on stage, so that's probably how he does that. But um, but way different than like I feel like if you saw, like sort of like you saying he did that same thing in the I feel like if you saw five of his shows, they would veer very like they would be very, very subtle, slight differences. Like just he's just the writing is the strength for him, and so um, so I think you know I'm gonna give him a nine out of ten. Not perfect, but you know, nine out of ten.
SPEAKER_00So yeah, that's I very much felt like it he his jokes feel very structured, like he knows like they are very scripted and rehearsed, but at the same time, and I I I was trying to figure out how to like put this into words because he it does feel very rehearsed, but at the same time it feels very natural.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00I feel like he's rehearsed it so much that it's natural, if that makes sense.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, he enjoys the retelling, yeah. He he enjoys reliving it all through through the storytelling.
SPEAKER_02Well, and it makes sense too because what you know, from a writer's perspective, like in it's sort of like when somebody that writes music they can like hear the music in their head. I think he, when he's writing the jokes, can see like how it's being performed in his head. And so it's like that's different than somebody that's like has an almost an uh like innate sense of what's funny and can say things and can like because there's certain comedians that can go on stage and they just start riffing and everyone is dying with laughter. And it might have been like a loose, like, oh, I want to talk like bullet points. Like they're like, I want to have a joke about this, and I want to have a joke about this, and then it moves into that. And like, I don't think Fizz are like that at all. I think he writes it, he's a writer, so he like writes the whole thing out, you know, just like with SNL, like where you'd have to write the whole thing out, you know. Um, very detail oriented. So um, all right, performance and delivery. How effective was the comedian's stage presence and delivery? Um, I'll start on this one. So I give him a eight, an eight out of ten. Uh the high high end of engaging and confident. Uh, I think he's obviously well, you know, well established on stage. And when you watch him, he's not there's nothing in there that like he doesn't have any timidity or anything like that. He is even if he like he's developed the jokes, he's delivering the jokes, and he's doing it full force. Like he's like, I know this is gonna hit. I know like he's full confidence. And so um, I think that's where I landed on that. How about you, Ellen?
SPEAKER_00I'll let you guess.
SPEAKER_02So far, he's got a 30 out of 30. He's adding 1000.
SPEAKER_00It's the delivery. Uh well, the delivery, I think, is his is his superpower. Like, I almost don't think he could write stand up for somebody else. Like, I don't think somebody else could perform his yeah. Um, because the delivery and timing of the jokes is so important. I mean, almost to a fault a little bit, because I think the dead grandparent bit is so perfectly delivered. Yeah. Um, the way he starts like getting into it and he kind of starts like easing into the jokes because they're so dark and he's kind of like got this playful dance around the boundaries of it. Um I think it's so strong. And I think it's an my assumption, if I had to guess, because of the subject matter of the whole thing and how he starts with that, that's kind of unrelated. Um, I think that's kind of like him warming up the audience.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_00But I think it's kind of almost misused a little bit because it's probably one of the better bits in the whole thing because of the delivery. And then that just kind of continues, but just maybe the bits aren't as good as he goes on.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_03How about you need to? He had to give the child grandparent death wish thing. He had to put that at the front because it's like you said, so unrelated to like the name of the special, the the point of it. And I I agree with you though that it's almost like the um Is it is it the preface in a story where there's almost like a micro story or a short story that's in the same universe but might have nothing to do with any of the characters.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Um, like that's what he did just in a comedy special format.
SPEAKER_02Um, and I don't know. This I don't I don't think this steps on anything in the future, but that's one of the things I was going to talk about is uh what I called the running start. You know, is that like when you turn this on, he just starts. It's like I we had one other person, we I think Shane Gillis did this also, where you just turn it on and you're like, Did I start it? Like, was I need do I need to restart this? Because it like I feel like I came in in the middle of a joke, like, but that's just the style. And then he did a full 10 minutes. I don't know if you guys caught that, but he did a full 10 minutes of material before the credits. So like the cold open.
SPEAKER_03He stole that from SML.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, which is which is crazy. I like, I mean, I like the I like it. Uh like it took me a while because I was like, There were there not any credits or anything? And I'm like, because and it started to get like four, five, six, seven minutes, and I'm like, I guess there's no credits in this at all. And then he's like, cue the credit. Like basically he cued it and it like said it, and then it went into the credits, and that was that's crazy.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I listened to him talk about this, about filming it um in an interview, and he talked about because of the subject matter, because it's just such this kind of heavy real thing that happened to him. Um, he didn't want to do uh was it Kid Gorgeous? Kid Gorgeous had have y'all seen that one? It was the one before this one. It's it has this hilariously ridiculous, I mean very SNL um like intro before he ever steps out on stage. Um, and so like to come on this one and it was just like right into the routine um was very different, but he did that very intentionally. Um, just because he was like, it just like I and and we'll get into this later, but like just the way he balanced the the humor with the seriousness of the subject matter, yeah, was flawless to me. Like I just don't know that you can do much better than what he did.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, absolutely.
SPEAKER_03Um I gave him a nine. You gave him a nine, okay on performance in 10. 1098.
SPEAKER_02Awesome.
SPEAKER_03He um that which is I think the highest score I gave him in the whole thing. So I agree with you, Ellen. This is his super powerful.
SPEAKER_02I'm pretty sure I bet you Ellen's giving him a higher than 10 on one of these. Like it's gonna be like an 11 out of 10, you know, like this one goes to 11, you know, like um, I mean, maybe the final score. Right. You got 150 out of 100. Like a thousand, anyway.
SPEAKER_03We we call the difference Mullaney points. How Mullaney was this how Melaney was this performance?
SPEAKER_02It was like a thousand out of a hundred.
SPEAKER_03The closer to Mulaney he is, the delivery, the more the 50 points they get.
SPEAKER_01I swear I'm a critical person. I'm just such a fan of him.
SPEAKER_03Hey, there's there's one we recorded quite recently where I I fangirled all over Taylor Tollinson.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah. Oh, which one?
SPEAKER_00Which one? I might judge you hard on this one.
SPEAKER_02Uh Prodigal Daughter.
SPEAKER_00Is that the latest one?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it's the most recent one.
SPEAKER_03Are you serious? I haven't I haven't seen any of her full specials before, so it's maybe you gotta understand.
SPEAKER_02Nick, Nick sort of fell in love a little bit. It was like no, not it was a little bit about the comedy, but it was, you know, there were some other some other things going on there.
SPEAKER_03So don't worry, I'll watch the other ones.
SPEAKER_02Now that you now that you're in love.
SPEAKER_00Take this rabbit trail for just a second, because this has been this has been bugging the heck out of me since I watched it. Because I was I'm a huge fan of her. I love her too. Um and I really loved her first few specials. I was so excited about this one.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And the reason I think you might probably like it better than I did was because it's it at this point, and this is what I was talking about at the beginning, where John Mullaney has not done this with me yet, but it's just more of the same. It's like we're just rehashing the same like subject matters as her other ones. Um so yeah, now that you've discovered her, keep on her for a while and let me know.
SPEAKER_03I'm I'm curious to watch this evolve. I I do also share a similar history of with religion. So uh there's that really privately, personally relatable.
SPEAKER_02Right, right. All right. How about audience engagement? One to five. Did the comedian connect well with the audience? Uh I'll start on this one. I said he had strong engagement and the audience was invested, um, three out of five. And um, I think, like I said, I I think I say this on every everyone about this. Maybe this is because maybe these are all the things that I'm like, I need to change my own scorecard that I made myself, you know, like because I'm like, well, maybe this one doesn't exactly apply. But um I feel like when we're watching Netflix specials, the audience is gonna be engaged. Yeah, you know, they're there, but I think some of it is like, do we feel like the audience is engaged? Because obviously all those people went to see him and are we're happy to be there, and we're like, yeah, this is awesome. He he's filming a Netflix special and we're there, like live. This is cool. And um, but I you know, I think um just the storytelling thing. I think sometimes the you know, you don't feel the engagement as much. So how about you, Alan?
SPEAKER_01Five.
SPEAKER_02Let me guess. Let me guess. She said it.
SPEAKER_00Well, I'm curious, what would a five have looked like for you for him?
SPEAKER_02Um what would a five look like for me? Um I think that's a good question. I think like it just the it's just the feeling of it. Like because of the because of the audience like silence during some of the parts that are like the lulls, um, you don't like that engagement isn't like felt at that point in the like in the filming, if that makes sense. Um and so that's why I'm now on the subside basically a three out of five. So yeah.
SPEAKER_03I gave a four out of five.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_03And that's what captivated captivating full audience buy-in. The the low side.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Um and I think the reason he didn't get a five would be that uh I I could imagine a little bit more, or I had a feeling that there could be a bit more. Um one of my cues or clues was that uh I could hear members of the audience uh uh engage, react, not just with clapping and laughter, but they were like, I heard like, oh my goodness, or yeah, I heard somebody like repeat the last couple of words of the punchline, like um, you know, and granted they're probably just the people who have me sitting next to the mic, but they're also a sample of the audience. So I that that's why I gave such a high score.
SPEAKER_02Awesome. All right. How about diversity of material? Did the comedian cover a range of topics? We'll start with you, Alan.
SPEAKER_00You're not gonna believe it on this one because uh at first I was gonna say like no. I think what it is, I think what it is, and this will make sense, especially when we get to style quality of how I viewed this all was when I evaluate something like this, I think about like how well did they accomplish what they were trying to accomplish.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And so this entire special was on one subject matter.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_00Some dead grandparents for the warm-up, right? Um, and so, but what I think is interesting is I still give them a 10 because a 10 out of five. I'm gonna uh a five. Um, because he's able to keep it fresh throughout the whole thing. Like we're still telling, like y'all said, one long continuous story, and the whole time he still kept like, okay, and now we're on to a new part of the story with a new scene and new characters. Yeah, um, and I mean, if you think of that, like this this thing was an hour and 20 minutes. Um, and I kind of broke it out. He basically had one, two, three, four, five, six sections to it. So we've got the dead grandparents, that short little intro before the credits, the sketchy doctor bit, rehab, selling the watch, and then the GQ interview. That's quite a bit of ground to cover.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_00Or an hour, 20 minutes.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And like that, he I will say it it starts to tip off there somewhere between the watch and the GQ interview. Um, it does get a little slow for me, but for the most part, like he keeps you engaged and interested in what the next part is almost the whole time.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah, I think you're right. I think that the transitions are big for him, you know, just um moving from one story to the next, but it's all one stor. Like I said, it's a lot of it is one it's not one story, but like a lot of it is very closely related, you know. Um did you already do this one, Nick? No.
SPEAKER_03No, you haven't started with me on any of these yet.
SPEAKER_02I did. I th I started with you once. I did.
SPEAKER_03Once five, that's a lot.
SPEAKER_0020%.
SPEAKER_03Um I don't it doesn't bother me at all. I just want the audience to have some variety.
SPEAKER_01He means he wants Ellen to stop giving fives and tens to everything.
SPEAKER_02So okay. I'll start with you on the next one, Nick.
SPEAKER_03You score, you score like you want to. Uh I gave it a three out of five. Okay. Balanced mix of subjects. And that's after Ellen convinced me to bump it up. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01I can't exactly. I'm just very convincing, or if Nick is just easily swayed.
SPEAKER_03A little bit of both. You know, it's that and more. It's it's it's all that and more. Um and I need other people to balance me out. That's that's what it is. But uh yeah, I think you know, I already wrote down the you know the childhood psychopathy and uh you know his rehab journey. Like so that that's why he scored low.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_03But then it kind of evens out because he found so much variety within the scope of that.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah, yeah. Out of five. I felt like he was a little bit over um three, but not quite to a four. And I feel like it's uh it is easy to like to think, oh, all this is about addiction. It's like that's one subject, right? But but when you break it down, like you were saying, Ellen, like the different stories, these are all stories that have the same like underlying theme. They're all like based on him being like basically coked out of his mind or you know, on a bunch of drugs and you know, telling these stories, but also um he you know he goes through different like scenarios, if you will. Um, because like you said, he has the intervention, he's got the GQ story, he's got the the Rolex, um, you know, all those have mini stories a little bit within them, I think. Uh, because the Rolex one starts out by him saying that he called his accountant and said, Don't give me any cash, you know, so that's why he's like trying to sell this Rolex or whatever. Um so anyway, I thought it was pretty balanced, like I said, mix of subjects, uh, you know, and kept it somewhat fresh, but not quite a four, so three point five. All right, impact and memorabilia. Memorability. Memorabilia. Sorry.
SPEAKER_01I buy merchandising.
SPEAKER_02One out of ten. I mean, excuse me, one, two, ten. Gosh.
SPEAKER_01One out of ten. Right to my heart there.
SPEAKER_02Oh my gosh. Okay. Was this perf was this a performance that sticks with you? Nick. Let's start with Nick on this one.
SPEAKER_03Oh, that's a good idea. I'd love to hear what he thinks.
SPEAKER_02I just came up with that idea myself.
SPEAKER_03Great idea.
SPEAKER_02Beautiful.
SPEAKER_03Four out of ten, some standout moments. Okay. Like, I feel like I will, you know, two weeks from now struggle to remember most of the jokes. And really, that's probably a reflection of my poor memory than it is of his remarkability. I don't know. I I feel like I I understand his style so much that his jokes become quite predictable. And that's probably why his delivery stood out to me so much. Just a call back to that, because even though I could predict it, I knew exactly what he was gonna say next, he didn't disappoint, unfortunately, but he delivered it so well that it was still interesting. Yeah, so like um, yeah. At any rate, it still kind of came out to be fairly low impact for me as a four out of ten.
SPEAKER_02All right. How about you, Alan?
SPEAKER_00No, I want to hear yours first.
SPEAKER_02Okay. Um, I did I had an eight out of ten, uh, a little higher than Nick.
SPEAKER_03I think twice as high.
SPEAKER_02Little. Um no, I think that uh I'm maybe it's because like my style of speaking and other things is storytelling. Like I love doing that. And if if I if I ever ended up or like somehow magically was funny and was able to do stand-up comedy, I would be a storytelling comedian. That's what I would do. Uh I don't think that's in the cards, but um, but the but the idea is I I gravitate towards that. I like that. Like um, you know, um I'm trying to remember, like, there's there's a couple other comedians that I really like that do that. And um I'm trying to remember, gosh, man, why am I like blanking on his name? Um Patton Oswald is like a really big storytelling comedian, and he's hilarious. And um, and the same thing, like long stories, long drawn out stories. And even actually, Nick, when we went and saw um Drew Lynch, I mean, Drew Lynch, I mean, he has ADD, but or ADHD, but he No, his his ex- Oh, his ex-wife. No, but he would like he would like go on a tangent and then go on a tangent on the tangent, and then we would be like from the audience yelling, like, what about what happened in that other story? Like, and then be like, Oh yeah, remember? I mean, so like that, I mean that kind of story, but he was hilarious, you know, he's telling a lot of stories that were really seemingly mundane stories, but was getting lots of laughs on them and um just because his personality. But with uh, like I said, with John Mulaney, I think um eight out of ten. I think it would be I think for me that I'll remember the stories and be able to like sort of regurgitate them a little bit. All right, how about use of call? Oh, wait, Ellen, I almost skipped you. I almost skipped our guests. So, Ellen, you he always puts the guests first, that's why I know I get like messed up anyway. What what about you, Ellen?
SPEAKER_00Uh and this is one I have lots of thoughts about. Um, I do part of me does kind of wish we could have like split this one into impact versus memorability. Because I will say John Laney is definitely probably my most quoted comedian in my life. Um, and there's just not a lot of like great little zingers from this one. Um I remember like the story, and again, I got to see this one live, so it's very special to me and all that. But um, so from that side of things, I probably would have ranked it lower. But the impact alone, I gave it a 10. Again, shocked time now. Um, but let me let me let me tell you why. I'm actually gonna convince you to raise your scores as well. Okay. Because let's so diving back into the pop culture side of things, right? So when this all came out, that he I don't know if y'all know the timeline. So, like he it came out that he had the drug problem, was going to rehab, then very shortly after got divorced, then very quickly after that, met Olivia Munn and started dating her, and then they had a baby very quick. It was all very fast.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um, and I when I heard all this, I was devastated because like, well, one, obviously, just as a human, like I don't want anybody to go through that. But also, I was like, his career is over. Like, even if he's not like quote unquote canceled, he he's doing the whole like rock star thing. And I was like, there's no way he's gonna bounce back from this. Like he's out having crazy celebrity rebounds, and um, like he's just not gonna be the same John Mulaney.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And so I was, I'd heard some interesting things about this special before I'd even seen it live, um, of people saying how dark it was, and it was kind of a a really tough hang. Um, so I was, I was, I just didn't know what to expect, and I was not, I didn't have high hopes. Yeah. But I think it mattered so much how he returned to stage and how he handled this. Like he can't just not address it, right? Like it was way too big to not tell anything about. But I think if he handled it too lightly or tried to make too much of a joke about it, well, then no one's gonna like you're not gonna be kind of forgiven in that spotlight, right? Because they're just gonna see, well, you were a drug addict and you left your wife and you know, whatever. Um, but I think what he was able to do with this special that I think was so important for his career, was he was able to take the severity of the problem, like he was really honest about that, the sincerity of like where he is now. Like every time he talked about like the people who saved his life and staying clean and all those things, he it you felt it was very sincere. And then he wrapped it in this perfectly balanced humor bow of just like it just not taking it too seriously, but not just making a giant joke of the whole thing. And I don't think it could have been any better as far as like the impact on his career. Like I think, I think it was so easy for this to have gone a different direction.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um, because you know, I think it's after this, then he goes to get on the the Netflix show. What is it, everybody, everybody's live in LA with John Maline?
SPEAKER_02LA, uh-huh. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um, you know, and so I I think his career is kind of back on track, and and I think that's very impressive and a very difficult thing to do.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I'd agree as a comeback tour, like, yeah, this this was a solid hit. Um but I think there's just moments where he because of that he played it safe and it became less remarkable for me.
SPEAKER_00Interesting. That's interesting. I can I can kind of see that too.
SPEAKER_02So okay. So let's go on to callbacks. Use of callbacks. Did the did the comedian effectively use callbacks? Uh, who wants to start?
SPEAKER_00I will because I'm proud to not give a high number.
SPEAKER_02Oh, here we go. Here we go. The first lesson perfect score.
SPEAKER_00First lesson perfect. I gave him the three just because this is not this is just not part of his style. Like he throws it in there, he sprinkles them in there, and I think he uses them well. Yeah. Um, but his callbacks are so subtle, like you have to be paying attention very quickly. Like, there's been times in some of his other specials where I literally didn't catch the callback till about the tenth time I've seen it. So um, so yeah, I'll give him a three.
SPEAKER_02All right, Nick.
SPEAKER_03You know what? I gave him a 3.5, but I'm gonna give him a four out of spite. I like you, Ellen. Don't don't take it the wrong way.
SPEAKER_01I'm not mad about it.
SPEAKER_00Just give him higher grade.
SPEAKER_03Sure, sure. I I counted one, two, three, four, five, six, seven.
SPEAKER_02No, you got more than I did. Wow.
SPEAKER_03And I I'll say you use the magic word sprinkle. Like callbacks are meant to, it's a seasoning. It's not, you know, you can't make a whole routine that's just callbacks. Because then you like tell one joke, and then you say, remember that time I told that joke? Remember that time I told that joke? Remember that time? So like you gotta yeah. Um don't do not be too generous with your callbacks. If you're a comedian and you're listening to this, do not be too generous with your callbacks.
SPEAKER_02All right. You heard it here first.
SPEAKER_03Well, yeah. So I think after you've given your score, maybe we can each kind of popcorn up recall which callbacks we yeah, I I did.
SPEAKER_02I gave a four out of five. I thought they were well executed. Um on that note, the use you were talking about use of callbacks. I was listening to Jim Gaffigan the other day, and he you know, he's so meta because he'll make comments about his own comedy while he's doing his comedy. And so he's like he made a callback that was like a triple, like a double callback to two separate jokes. And he's like, Oh, that was the callback to that. And he's like, if I would have made a callback to this other one, it would have been a triple triple callback, which is illegal in Pennsylvania, so I can't do it. You know, like made a joke about making callbacks. So I thought that was definitely I had to bring it up, but um, but yeah, well executed when he did them. Um what ones do you had six? I only had I only I may not have caught all of them, but I had three that I caught in there.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I think I had four. Well, how about you go with your three, Brian?
SPEAKER_02Well, the main well, the biggest one is the koala baby changing station. That's like the that wraps up the entire thing at the very, very end, right? Um, he did make a callback to the uh fifth grader a couple times where he said something like that, and then he's like, and all you people here, and also we have the best fifth grader or one of the best fifth graders or whatever, something like that. Um, within the Rolex, um, he'd made a callback to wearing rings of yellow gold and silver gold and stuff like that, and it's not gonna match. So those were the three that I had.
SPEAKER_00Yes, I had those three plus, and this this is this is what's funny, is this was I thought the best one, but it's so subtle you don't even catch it. Um he when he was telling the the story of him and the two Johns, yeah, and he said, you know, my name's John Mullaney, and if you didn't know that, you were probably in rehab with me calling that.
SPEAKER_02Ah, yes. Oh, yeah, yeah, that's right.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it's so subtle, he just does it as a drive-by.
SPEAKER_02Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_03That's that's one I didn't catch. Um I caught over Zoom when he was talking about how he'd be able to pick up the tab of 12 people now because all 12 were at his and but half of them were on Zoom. Yeah. And so he made a call back to like, you see, you saved my life over Zoom. Um and then when he met the doctor at the rehab, and he the doctor introduced himself, he's he's like, ah, two names.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, oh that's right.
SPEAKER_03Because his drug doctor who would give him any prescription was just Dr. Michael. Um referring to himself as Baby J to the police, which I don't know, that's kind of a stretch for a callback.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_03But he he had previously mentioned date baby J, and it is the name of the special.
SPEAKER_00I almost feel like he got something mixed up out of order, because that would have been funnier swapped. Like that would have been a funnier callback had he.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, if if the first time you heard him say baby J in the special was when he's talking about the three Johns. Yes. And then and then later on when he referred himself, yeah, I think you're right.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. So I almost feel like he got mixed up in his order somewhere.
SPEAKER_03Um and then I'm having trouble reading my writing. I think it's prob problem in rehab with me.
SPEAKER_02Probably in rehab with me. That's the one that Alan just said.
SPEAKER_03Oh yeah, you did mention, okay. I I guess I did catch that. Um yeah, it's I think it was a good use of callback, so that's why you got a four out of five.
SPEAKER_02Yep. All right. How about style quality? How effective was the comedian's style? Let's go with Ellen. 10 out of 10. All right, let's go.
SPEAKER_01He's John Mulaney, he was the most John Mullaney.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Right. This is the question where I'm like, this, if I had to pick like how I like if you told me to just rate a special one to ten, this is the one I would use. And it's the how well did they accomplish what they were trying to do. Like that's the way I think of it. Yeah. Um, and I just think he, I mean, the storytelling, the the reality of his situation, all that, I just think it was so well executed.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Nick.
SPEAKER_03Um I I gave a 6.5 out of 10. It was between okay-ish. They did an awesome job. I think I flipped the switch on my robot vacuum to turn it on instead of off. Oh my gosh. Comedy of errors here. Um so yeah, between okay ish and they did an awesome job. That's I think that's some feedback for our sheet. I feel like that's too big of a jump.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Um but uh yeah, that that puts them at 6.5. Um, I think I do need to take away your overall rubric, Ellen, that uh when assessing each of these, uh it needs to come with that question, you know, how well did they do with what they seem to have intended. Um obviously we can't know their intention unless they say it. But even then, you know, people don't always even know their own intentions.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Um, but I think that's that's a good filter for how to score upcoming episodes.
SPEAKER_02Well, I gave him a nine out of ten on this. I think uh the reason why is because he's pretty distinct, even though he's a storytelling comedian. Again, I think he's if I had to guess, like he's probably one of the comedians that has had the most writing experience. Like being in writers' rooms and like working through material in that way. Um, I think there's I mean, obviously all comedians write material, but um, I think being in a formal, I don't say formal, but like, you know, Saturday Night Live, you're like competing to stay on as a writer and stay on the show. Like that's I've read books about it, and it's like in that, like if you're not producing funny things that make it to the air, then you're not gonna be there anymore. And so, you know, your writing strength has to be pretty strong, and um also you have to be liked by people. That sounds really weird, but like a lot of people, I'm sure, like like I mean, I know they talk about it's like, hey, if Lauren Michaels doesn't like you, then you're not gonna go very far, and like regardless of how good your writing is. So I think he's likable as a person. Um, but also like he's developed if you watched, I mean, you have Alan, but like if you watched any of other his other specials or listened to any of them, um he's been developing this style, like his distinct style, and people do impressions of him because you know, and that's how you can tell. Like, can somebody do an impression of him? And you go, Oh, yeah, that's distinctly sounds like John Mullaney, the way that he's saying it and the mannerisms and things like that. And so that means that you have a style. That means that you like can lock in on that. And um, and I think he's been doing that for a long time now, and he's only gotten better. I think maybe being off drugs probably helps a little bit, like you know, clarify your thoughts and you know, allow you to be a little more crisp on stage. But um, I mean, and he even makes reference to that, like him doing the like ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-ba-b-y know, like I wonder why that was, you know. And so uh so I think now that he's you know basically hopefully gotten through the the addiction tunnel a little bit, that he's uh he's able to now like really lock in on his style and um and continue down the path. So nine out of ten for me. How about timing and pacing? Uh one uh one to five. Was the pacing effective for humor delivery? Humor delivery. That's we gotta like it's like a you know, like a door dash or something, and you're getting it delivered to you anyway. Ellen, that's true.
SPEAKER_00Uh I gave us a four. It's yeah, the rubric almost makes it sound like it's talking more about like the joke delivery, but I was kind of more thinking like pacing and timing, but I was kind of thinking more pacing and timing of the whole special.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_00There it does dip like somewhere between the the watch story and the GQ interview, he starts to lose me just a little bit. Um now he picks me back up with a GQ story, but uh it does feel like it just lags there. And like it was because the first half is so strong. Yeah, and I think that actually hurts him in the long run.
SPEAKER_04Nick?
SPEAKER_03I gave a four out of five as well. And another commentary on our evaluation sheet, it feels like the jump between three and four is big.
SPEAKER_02Inconsistent timing and then strong. So inconsistent to strong, yeah.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. I guess I mean, I don't know, inconsistent, maybe we call it variable. You know, variable is sort of neutral.
SPEAKER_02That sounds like a sounds like a motor or something. Variable. I don't know.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Um, I don't I don't have a lot to say. Like there's this is pretty tightly coupled with uh my mind performance and delivery. Um I didn't feel the same lull that Ellen did in the spot between GQ and then before that the watch story. Yeah, yeah, the the watch story I actually it's time pieces, it's time pieces. Time pieces, yeah. So ironically enough, right? The the timing of the time piece story just wasn't doing it for you, Ellen. That's that's great. Um but yeah, I just I think he he did a good job of uh spacing out what he was saying for maximum absorption by the audience. Umless you give the audience time to catch up.
SPEAKER_02Don't jump ahead. Relatability's coming up, okay?
SPEAKER_03It's this is this is a fabric. It's a fabric woven with the tapestry of a comedy special with the yarn of comedy, anyway. Yes, okay, saving the world to come.
SPEAKER_02Timing and pacing for me, four out of five. I think that I agree with Alan. I that that was about the time where I was like, when he got done with the Rolex story, because I listened to it first because I was I put it on in my car and I listened to it first, and then I watched it again, and I watched it for a second time, so I could pick up all the like ver the non-verbal, you know, stuff. And at when he finished the role, I like in my head when he started the Rolex story and he was getting into it, I was thinking, oh, this is the finale, like this is the end. And then he launched into something else, and it was like there was this, it was a weird transition, and it did like it didn't, I don't know. It's almost like he tacked the GQ story on at the end, and like that, something like that. I don't know.
SPEAKER_00It feels like he almost could have left, I mean, it's funny, but it feels like he could have left that off altogether in my right.
SPEAKER_02If he ended with the Rolex story, that yeah, exactly. Um, and so I think that's why four out of five for me. Um I mean, I think it was still like you said, the first part was very strong up to that point, and that's way towards the end. So all right, how about physical comedy? Not you know, he's sort of not known for that, but how well did they use their physical use physical elements in their comedy? Ellen?
SPEAKER_00I give him a three. Um, if you would have asked me before this if if John Mullaney's a physical comedian, I would have said no.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And in watching it, kind of like talking about him dropping into his characters and stuff during the bits. Um, he actually does. He uses it very subtly, and it's it's not for every joke, but when he uses it, it's very effective.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Again, during the grand the dead grandparents bit. It's like that's he the timing, the way he like uses his his face and his body and all of that to tell that whole story. Um it just it it's really effective.
SPEAKER_02Nick?
SPEAKER_03The way he holds his hands in prayer while holding the mic. Oh, yes, to pray for the demise of one of the less important grandparents. Yes.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_02The best part about that was that he held the mic and then he went. And he like looked around like before he started praying.
SPEAKER_03Like he was like, You gotta describe it, Ryan. Oh, sorry.
SPEAKER_02Sorry, this is I forgot this is not a visual. You guys are seeing it. Yeah, he looked around and like like he was looking for somebody coming anyway.
SPEAKER_03Well, and he also had the uh the song and dance bit. Yes, you know, talking about how you know, a po while he was apologizing, quote unquote, for the dark tone of the child wishing for grandparent demise. Um, you know, he's like, Well, I couldn't have done this super high energy thing, and then he goes into the high energy thing.
SPEAKER_02Um he did a whole musical album. I mean, a whole music comp musical comedy album. So like he did, he has done musical comedy in the past, but uh and even referenced Inside saying like he couldn't do he couldn't compete with Bo Burnham post-pandemic. That's right. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03Um I gave it three out of five too.
SPEAKER_02I also gave him a three out of five. Well, the one big one I had was the uh the the like waving the shirt for the rehab doctor, where he was like he was like, Do you want me to take my shirt off? Well, how does how do you like this? And he's like waving his shirt like a stripper, you know? And I'm like, I thought that was really funny and like well placed, you know, and also a callback too. Um, you know, talking about the the doctor asking him to take his shirt off and then the sexual harassment stopped after that, you know.
SPEAKER_03So um yeah, sort of a visual callback, yes or physical callback, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Well, and also the other thing I was gonna say is we haven't really touched on this, um, and I don't think there's any other subjects that we will, but like I've missed it before, but he doesn't um like at least seemingly, I'd have to go back and like here, but he doesn't cuss a lot. Like he like he does use some, I mean he uses words, but like I've heard comedians where I'm like, dude, every like fourth word is like an F bomb, and which I don't it's fine. That's still funny to me, but I just noticed that like thinking thinking back to it now, like it doesn't um anyway. That's not physical comedy, but it's just a comment that I forgot to make earlier.
SPEAKER_00So well, what's funny about it too is as I was watching it, I'm trying to remember. Good lord, I feel like I should have those other ones memorized by now. I don't feel like he uses the F-word a whole lot. I don't think so either. And so yeah, he actually uses it more for him.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00But again, like, and this is why I think he's so skilled at what he does, is every time he uses it, it's it's the perfect emphasis. It's like the right time to use it.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Which um yeah, one of my I can spoil this because I have a lot of favorite jokes. But one of them is when he's talking about Venmo and he's like, Venmo is for drug deals. None of us in the drug world have any clue what all of you civilians are doing on our app with your private fucking transactions.
SPEAKER_02With your yeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it's just perfection.
SPEAKER_02Right, right.
SPEAKER_00It was so well placed.
SPEAKER_03I mean yeah, I lost sight of that the use of explicatives entirely, except at the very beginning, where like he used it for comedic effect, you know, when he was embodying something kind of innocent, like the a child telling a story or a child telling another child what to do. Like he used um the F-bomb a a couple of times, which also set the tone or helped to set the tone, right? Yeah. Yeah. But it it once I noticed that though, everything that followed, like I didn't even notice any other swear words.
SPEAKER_02Right. That's what I'm saying, is like when he was using them, they were all they were so strategically placed and used well that you just don't it's not it doesn't stick out like a sore thumb, you know. Um you don't feel like yeah, you just don't feel like it's it's being used for the wrong purpose. So all right, so all three of us had three on that. Okay, how about relatability? Did the material resonate with a broad audience? Nick, you want to start us there?
SPEAKER_03I I am so inconsistent with how I score this one because I I can't decide whether it needs to be universally relatable, yeah. Relatable to me, right? Or you know I uh I went with four out of ten, somewhat relatable. And I let the fact that most of us, or hopefully most of us, don't have much experience with you know illicit drug addiction. Right. Um that that's really kind of the the short of it. That that's the rationale that went into it when I decided to put the number down, and if I'd thought more about it, I probably would have scored them higher.
SPEAKER_02All right. How about you, Alan?
SPEAKER_00Well, Nick ruined my joke. I was gonna say I was gonna say ten, because that's exactly how it was when I was a drug addict going through rehab. But then Nick made it sound sad of like, I hope no one has to deal with that. No, so I gave it a one for the same reason, but that's that's what's been so funny. I you know, like I said at the beginning, is just he's never been necessarily relatable to me.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it's just yeah, yeah, that's right. It's um I gave him a four, uh, somewhat relatable, low end of that spectrum. But I put heavily personal and about addiction. So I that's what I talked about. The underlying theme for all of the stories was that is like you're you're having to listen to the story and that, but that's also part of the reason why it's funny is because you're you're putting yourself in the position of like somebody who's addicted and like their brain isn't working correctly. That's why the GQ part is funny. That's why that, you know, even though like we said it's sort of misplaced or maybe could be left off. The reason why that story's funny, though, is because you're going, he he prefaces that by saying, like, I don't remember giving this interview at all. And and then he starts talking about like if you heard that, hey, if you heard that, that was the the spoon falling on my fruit loops because I'm eating a bowl of fruit loops right now, you know, like that, like that kind of thing because and then he's and then he comments on it and says, like, oh, because that's what a normal person does is they comment on every noise that is on a phone call, you know, like stuff like that. So um, but yeah, not not very relatable, but also the rate relatability doesn't have a direct correlation to funny. So, you know, still funny.
SPEAKER_03I I wonder maybe we'd tweak this and it be relatable relatability and likability. And likeability, okay. Because because you can relate with someone even if you don't share their world, right? Or even share their worldview, but like are they successfully bridging that gap to the point where you feel like you can relate with them even though you know nothing about right experientially, you don't have any experience in that matches theirs.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Umnovative techniques. Did the comedian bring something new or unique? Ellen.
SPEAKER_00Gave him a three. Uh, I think the only thing that like was super innovative in this was just how he kind of did the the intro and then like the cut to credits.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um, he just sets it up so perfectly, and then he says, here's what happened, and then it's cut to credits. Yes. I mean, it's just it's just great. It's it's it it just felt so everything about this special feels so intentional. And I love that. I love to see somebody like make a choice and execute it well, and that's what he did there.
SPEAKER_02Absolutely. Nick?
SPEAKER_03Um for many of the reasons Ellen just gave, I felt like he had some fresh ideas. So I gave it a five. It it is hard to be innovative when you're telling personal stories. Uh but I think he did that in innovative ways. So I again. Give him a five out of ten.
SPEAKER_02Okay. Yeah, I think um I give him a four out of ten. And I think the intent, at least I think uh whoever wrote this uh scorecard, um, they might know. But um the intent behind this question is is um yeah, just like did they bring something new to like the comedy you know universe? Um and I think there are certain people who I I think we've talked about when we did an episode on Bo Burnham, and I think Bo Burnham is is is bringing a lot of new things that and you know based on not based on like strict humor, but like the way he's using the mediums and um the different, you know, uh you know, just sort of different ways he's putting things together to because people because he's he's realizing that people are consuming things in a different way now, and there's it's comedy still comedy, but he's using those things to allow people to consume in the way that they want to consume. And um, and I think sometimes you know, Netflix is pretty, you know, I mean, it's mainstream now, so it's really just like you're you know, it I mean it is, it's like you know, basically it's the new comedy source. Mainstream, exactly. Yeah, but but literally, like if you're on there, Netflix is gonna be like, look, we just want like a straight up comedy special. Here's what it's gonna be. You're gonna be in a theater, you're gonna be on a stage, you're gonna do this, and this is how it's gonna be shot. And and I'm sure some of them have like some leeway about and like some you know, um, you know, basically creative license to do what they want to do. But for the most part, if you watch a bunch of specials, I mean you go and take pick five, any five on Netflix, they're all gonna look about the same. There's gonna be slight differences, but because of you know, editing and production, and we'll get into that cinematic quality in the next thing. But um, but with him, I think his he's not bringing anything new to the comedy world, but he's doing what he's doing very well. So four out of ten.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, this is where I like was struggling with a few of the the like topics of criteria was just but like I don't think there's anything wrong with that. Like yeah, I think Bill Garnham's a perfect example of like he would be a five out of five every single time on like doing something new because he always does. Yeah. Um, but that doesn't mean that I want every comedian doing that either.
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_00Like I also I like the ones that like I go to and I know exactly what I'm gonna get from them.
SPEAKER_02Mm-hmm. Yeah. I mean, why do you think Jim Gaffkin is so successful?
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_02I mean, he the he just he does like not the same thing, but he does, you know, his he's he does his brand of comedy every time, and you know what you're gonna get. So all right.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I'm pretty sure though, when we reviewed Bo Burnham Inside, we rated him about the same for innovation because he innovated himself a while ago, and now it's just Bo Burnham is Bo Burnham, and yeah, you know, like he didn't bring anything new from his previous specials.
SPEAKER_02Right, right. All right, cinematic quality, nothing to do with the comedy, nothing to do with anything else. Like, how did the actual special look, which is what I alluded to a minute ago? How well was the performance filmed and edited? Did they edit it? That's the Pete Holmes reference for everybody out there. Ellen, what do you think?
SPEAKER_00Um, I give it a four just because it there was nothing wrong with it, but also there was nothing like I it wasn't something I noticed either. So I just put not distracting.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah. Okay. Nick.
SPEAKER_03Uh I enjoyed the way that it looked. Um I which is the four out of five. I feel like um gosh, oh Ellen, you just started giving low scores these this last few sections. No, she was real strong, real strong at the beginning.
SPEAKER_01So it didn't sound like I was just gonna be like 10, 10 the whole time. I also think I was like trying to look for things as I went.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and you're like, well, I should I should probably not give him a perfect score. I'm gonna comedian eight. Yeah, exactly. It'd be much more interesting. Actually, like somebody you've never watched or listened to or anything, is sometimes that's funny. That's fun.
SPEAKER_03Um so but but we were just talking how you loved how intentional different decisions were, like with the let me tell you what happened, and then it cuts to the credits.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I do love that. I also love the fact, and I actually think Mary mentioned this in the first episode in Nate Rugazi. Um, and it wasn't something I had thought about until she said it, but I love the fact that they didn't show the audience.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00This because that I never thought about it before, but that takes me out of it so much more than I realize. Like I'm there to watch the comedian. I want to hear the jokes, I want to see what they're doing.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And so I actually now it's like my new puppy when they cut to the audience, for example.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, the visual laugh track doesn't work.
SPEAKER_02That's that's exactly yep. It's like you should be laughing right now because this random person that we're showing you is laughing. And so I gave him a four out, or I gave it a four out of five. Um, I thought it was cool. The some of the camera work close-ups, uh, like the cameras on stage with him, like it's almost like look literally looking like up at him, like like the guys like kneeling in front of him with a camera. I know that he wasn't, but um they also um there were just good wide shots that they did every once in a while. They'd pull back and you could see the whole stage. Um, I just I don't know, I think it gives like a sense of size, and also the stage looked pretty cool. I just like the background, it just looked like buildings or something. Um, I mean like minimalistic buildings, something like that.
SPEAKER_03So I just said oh go ahead.
SPEAKER_02No, I just said wide shots are cool. So yeah, four out of five. What were we gonna say next?
SPEAKER_03Like the way he did the cold open wasn't jarring.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Like you were you just mentioned Shane Gillis, where it felt like did I just come into the middle of the video? Like what's going on? But with him starting black and fading to seeing everything, yeah, you you could I don't know, just and it sounded different, like it was almost like it was off stage. So it was it felt like an introduction. And then there were a number of times where the background color changed when sort of the mood of what he was talking about changed.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Um I really only noticed it like once or twice. And after that I just sort of accepted it and I stopped paying attention.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Alright. Let's uh let's get let's have some fun now. So like favorite jokes or bits in the special, and it sounds like Ellen's got some material for us here. Um she's like, hey, I don't know. I just I don't I hate to break it to you, Ellen, but like if you say everything, then it's not really a favorite, it's just like everything.
SPEAKER_00I was like, what if I just like read off the transcript of the first 40 minutes? Uh no, so I narrowed it down to four. So again, Mo One being one of them. Yeah. Um, I love the little sing-song-y thing at the beginning where he says we all went to rehab and we all got divorced, and our reputation is different. Yes, just such a beautiful way to be so self-aware of like this is weird, and I know it's weird. Um I like uh oh, when he's talking the intervention. Oh my gosh, I could spend hours talking about the intervention bit. It's so good. Um, when he talks about it's a good lineup, and he says it's like oh, we are the world of alternative comedians over 40. Okay, do y'all want to know? Do y'all know who the 12 people are?
SPEAKER_02Oh, yeah. Well, I know, I know the two, the two that he mentioned, Seth Myers and um and uh what's it called, Fred Armstrong.
SPEAKER_03Well, Nick Kroll is Kroll's mentioned. He thanked everyone in the cred, the end credits, they he lists them all by first name.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. And so the other ones that are confirmed are Bill Hayter, Natasha Leone, Marica Sawyer. I'm not familiar with her. And then there's a Mike, and my assumption is it's a Mike for big Mike Brabiglia. They're like friends from his college days. And then the rest are all um presumed to be like personal friends or family.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Fun fact, there are 13 people named in the credits, but he always says 12. The assumption there is that the 13th is the like intervention leader.
SPEAKER_02Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00But I just as the very first time I heard that, I like started digging. I was like, I need to know because it does it sounds great. He mentioned Seth Myers and Nickel. I'm like, who else was in this room?
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_00And and then I also, which actually leads me to the next part where he says, Um, you know, 12 people save my life. They could have done it with four, and I know the eight they could have cut. I don't know why that's so funny to me, but it's it's okay and so funny. I know the eight they could have cut.
SPEAKER_03Kind of lean into your your judgmental side a little bit.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Um that's good. Well, and also like I like that that that section of Fred Armison, like where he's talking about Fred Armison. It's like, do you know how off-putting it is to have Fred Armson being serious in front of he's like, no, next, next, next. Just like starting to swipe a screen, you know. That's funny. Um Nick, what about you?
SPEAKER_03Um, my favorite bit and he did this a few times. The the GQ, strangely enough, is is the for me the most prominent. The bit is the times he talks about well, how do I put it? The the times where he's recounting events he has no recollection of.
SPEAKER_02Yes.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Right? Like that to me is relatable. Uh there's things that I've said and done that I have no memory of. It keeps coming up more and more, and I probably need to get checked out.
SPEAKER_02But are you losing time, Nick? Is there like you're like I'm losing, I man, I lost like a day. I don't know what happened to it.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, it's only it's only 4 30, right?
SPEAKER_02You might need to go to a neurologist or something, you know, just check out.
SPEAKER_03Nah, I just need a neurologist. But yeah, that that was that was my favorite bit was just the times where he's he's telling us a story he doesn't actually remember. You know, like there's a bit of a weird irony meta to that, as well as the aforementioned relatability.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. So I had a couple, these are like sort of micro stories within some of the larger stories. So I I can't the thing I probably laughed the hardest at was daddy khaki pants, just like he was like, he's like pa means like daddy, and Pacino is like khaki pants, so daddy khaki pants is like that. I was just like, I was rolling when he was talking about that, and he was doing it in like a Pacino voice, you know, ish. Um, yeah, his and then his best, yeah, his best Pacino or whatever. And then uh it within the Rolex story, just all the stuff about like because we've all been in this situation where you're like you're telling like a little white lie, and then somebody like is not going along with they're like doing stuff to like block your white lie, and you're like, damn it, I just am trying to like I just using this as an excuse, you know, like all the stuff, and like obviously the Rolex story, he goes through the whole thing and talking about his brother and how he doesn't want this, and his brother has stumps because of a Vitamix accident, and that he uh and never mixed metals, and uh, you know, like what else does he talk about? Um, oh, not interested in time pieces, only watches, you know, like stuff like that. And then and then the whole story obviously wraps up with him being like, I'm buying it for cocaine, okay? I'm buying it for cocaine, like just like you know, the guy's just like not going along with his thing. Um, so I thought that was really funny. Um okay, how about most retellable joke, Ellen?
SPEAKER_01So this is where I got sad.
SPEAKER_00Because like I said, this is this I quote so much of his other stuff, and this one just doesn't have as many to me. Yeah. However, there is one that I might start using. Uh, because I am a uh sufferer of the ADHD. And so when he was telling this part, he said when did he say dinner was scheduled at 7 p.m. So when I so I went to get a haircut at 7 p.m.
SPEAKER_047 p.m.
SPEAKER_00And I truly believed I could make both work. Yes, and I think I'm gonna start saying that now.
SPEAKER_01Yes, and I truly believe I can make both work.
SPEAKER_02How about you, Nick?
SPEAKER_03I I drew a blank, like literally just there it is, there's my blank. That one's hard.
SPEAKER_02It was a hard one for me too, because he's not the kind of comedian that you go and like it's not if you tried to retell some of these stories, it's not it doesn't work. And so that's why you almost have to take like little mini stories like that, you know. Like like I might work daddy khaki pants into a conversation just to see if somebody asks me what the hell are you talking about? You know, like it's it's Al Pacino, of course. Al Pacino, daddy, you know, pa for daddy and Chino for khaki pants, you know, like just like that, and like you almost like it's a little bit of stealing material, you know, and then I have to give credit and be like, oh, that's actually a bit from blah blah blah, you know. So that's how I would retell that joke is like use it and then give credit where credit's due. Um and not not tell the whole story, but just say, Oh yeah, if you haven't seen the special, you need to go see it, you know, and sort of like push the person to that. Um I I like the story. The most retellable one, I think, for me is the uh it's the the guy who he called and is was not a drug dealer. And he's like he's like, he's like, you know, that's the only case where case where an addict converted an innocent person into a drug dealer. Like he's like, you know, like basically drug dealers usually do it to addicts, you know, convert render innocent people into addicts. And this is the only case where he's convicted, you know, an addict is converted an innocent person to a drug dealer. So um he's like, what do you do for I'm a painter? I'm a painter. We've talked about this. And he's like, to this day, I do not know how I know this person, which I think is hilarious. Um, yeah, that those things like things like that are so relatable. I think that like at the base level, not the addiction part, but like we've all had people where like they come up to you and they say hi to you, like in a they're just walking by or you randomly see them, and then you're like, Who was that? I have no idea who that was. Like, just like, hey buddy, how you doing? Yeah, nice, yeah, that's good. Yeah, great to see you. Yeah, say hi to the wife, okay? All right, yeah. And then what was that? Yeah, I'm not married. Like, oh no, I know. I meant someone's wife.
SPEAKER_03Say something when you're married, when you get married, say hi to her.
SPEAKER_02You're pulling in like a a U2, a U2 reference. That's hilarious. Um, yeah, that's that was that was good Brian Regan reference there that you pulled in.
SPEAKER_03So uh sorry, you didn't know. You didn't even know.
SPEAKER_02Uh I guess I'm not you're I thought you were making a reference to Brian Regan's U2 joke, you know, because that's like exactly the U2, like anyway.
SPEAKER_03Oh yeah. Yeah, enjoy your meal. You too. You too. I can't use the U2 phrase dance. No, no, I said when you do. So like I said, when you do get married. That's what I'm saying.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it's like uh it's like the U2, you know. So yeah, like 30% like no, it's like a hundred percent like it. Anyway.
SPEAKER_03Well, that's all the time we have. Oh no, we haven't done a score.
SPEAKER_02This is how we underscore and I'll say this one other thing. This is gonna be our Toastmasters reference.
SPEAKER_03Oh, okay. Let me get my bingo card out.
SPEAKER_02Get it out, knock it off, right? So, one of the things that we always talk about is uh uh in Toastmasters is like when you're having a conversation within a speech, like how to do it. And some people will say they'll do it like a book, like sort of novice people will say, like, he said this, and then I said that, and then she said that, and more effectively is not doing those things, right? And he does a really good job like that, where he has a two-person conversation, he takes on two separate characters, and he sort of flips to one side and then he flips to the other side, and then he flips to another side and makes it look real. And it like I just thought that was um a really good uh you know, really good technique that he used um in the whole set. So and he did it quite often because he had a lot of conversations. So all right, what about final scores? What did you guys have? Um, Ellen, let's start with you. What's your final score? A thousand out of one hundred.
SPEAKER_00Well, good news. I forgot my relatability thing was a joke. So when I readjusted that score down to one instead of a 10, it dropped it down to uh 78. Okay. I'm gonna pull in uh a page out of your book, Brian, from the first episode.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Uh I'm just gonna add some points on because I do think in just enjoyability, like ability, like pleasure of watching needs to be enough. So I'm gonna add an extra 10 points and give it an 88.
SPEAKER_0288. Good old Dale Jr. All right. I think it's 88.
SPEAKER_03Nick, how about you? Um, I think the the raw score before Ellen's influence was 64.5.
SPEAKER_04Uh-huh.
SPEAKER_03Um, but then you know, after some bumps and after adding my own nine-ish Melaney points, uh, it's a solid 78 out of 100.
SPEAKER_02Okay. I had the raw score of 69.5. I'm going to add 5.5 bonus points, just because same thing. Likeability, enjoyability. I always like uh John Mulaney. I I think he's I like I like his smartness about his humor, like just his intelligence about it. And um, so 5.5, which makes it an even 75 out of 100, is what I gave him.
unknownRespectable.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, respectable. So that's it. That's awesome. John Mullaney, go out and watch Baby J if you haven't watched it already. Um thank you, Ellen, for being here with us. And um, you have something you want to plug, though. What do you what do you want to plug?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, so I'm obviously um uh Brad, I know you're a dog lover, Nick. Dogs, yes.
SPEAKER_03Many, too many. Are you kidding me? How many? Too many dogs. How many? Um we have four.
SPEAKER_00Oh wow, but you have to like stop and count in your head. That is a lot, yeah.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah. At one point we had six, but they're they're all geriatric rescues. So we're we'll we're in for some sad times.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Um, but yeah, yeah, we love them.
SPEAKER_00Well, I run a nonprofit um called Unleash Impact. We are based locally here in Franklin, but we've actually had uh applicants and recipients from all over the country. Um, we provide resources to people so they don't have to give up their dog to shelter and rescues. So things like financial aid for vet bills that they can't afford, or if there's like a behavior issue and they need help paying for training or getting in touch with a humane trainer to be able to do that to actually keep the dog in the home. Um, so we are a pretty new organization. I've been in dog rescue for about 10 years. Uh took a little break in 2024 just because my heart needed it. And uh when I came back it in late 2025, I still was not able to take on new dogs, but I thought, well, let's solve the problem before it becomes a problem. So we're trying to stop the overpopulation um of dogs in shelters. So um, if that's something that interests you, you can follow us at unleashed impact org on Instagram or at uh we are at www.unleashedimpact.org.
SPEAKER_02That's awesome. Nice. That is a definitely a needed service. And I'm gonna go right now and follow on Instagram. Um yeah, so thank you again for being here. Thanks for being willing to come on and joke around and do this stupid thing with us. Um, but we have fun, so that's that's all that matters, and we get to talk about something that we all like, which is damn prompt. So next time, that's the end of the podcast. Nick loves it, Nick Loves.
SPEAKER_03It's different every time it's it's terrible.
SPEAKER_02All right, bye guys, bye.
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